The non conformer's Canadian Weblog

February 6, 2009

THE BOOGEYMAN CALLED FALSE TONGUES

The Boogeyman Called  “False Tongues” By Mel C. Montgomery

Of all the empty arguments offered by Cessationists, it is hard to find anything more bizarre than their claim of the existence of “false tongues.”  This doctrine is the new Boogeyman. http://brothermel.com/theboogeymancalledfalsetongues.aspx

For those of you who are unfamiliar with American culture, please allow me to explain who the Boogeyman is

The Boogeyman is an imaginary monster we sometimes frighten small children with.

We tell them, “If you don’t behave, the Boogeyman will get you!”  Or, “If you don’t do well in school, the Boogeyman will get you!

Little children will sometimes become convinced that there is a monster hiding under their bed or in their closet.  They say, “The Boogeyman is in there!

Sometimes also, when faced with a situation of which they are unfamiliar or for which they have no explanation, such as the sudden death of a family pet, or the appearance of a wart, children will exclaim, “The Boogeyman did it!”

The Boogeyman eixsts only in the imaginations of immature minds.

The False Tongues Boogeyman is the latest concoction in a long string of discreditied arguments the Cessationists have offered over the years.  Cessationists start from the false premise that genuine speaking in tongues ceased upon the death of the last apostle.  I have soundly disproven this starting point in my article, “Tongues Throughout Church History,”   I show from ancient Christian documents that speaking in tongues and other gifts of the Spirit continued on for several centuries after the last apostle died, and have frequently re-appeared in times of great revival up to this day.

Never-the-less, in spite of the clear evidence of Scripture and church history, Cessationists persist in arguing that speaking in tongues has ceased.  Needing to offer some explanation for the widespread occurrances of speaking in tongues today, they claim such instances are manifestations of “false tongues.”  Their argument is that when Christians today speak in tongues, they are doing so not under the influence of the Holy Spirit, but by the empowerment of Satan.

As of the year 2,000 a.d., 537 million born-again Christians speak in tongues.  This is 30% to 40% of the Body of Christ.

That is an awful lot of “false tongues.”

Are we truly to believe that Satan has taken possession of more than a third of the Body of Christ, without anyone noticing?

Here is why I do not believe in the existence of “false tongues”:

First, the Bible makes no mention of false tongues.  The Bible warns of false prophets, false apostles, false teachers, false Christs, and false accusers, but there is no warning of “false tongues.”

Second, among Paul’s specific instructions concerning speaking in tongues at Corinth, he does not question the validity of the tongues themselves, nor does he instruct us to do so either.

Third, if a false speaking in tongues does exist, which is inspired by the indwelling presence of an evil spirit, I believe such tongues would be impossible for a Christian to receive.  As Christians, we are the temple of the Living God (II Cor. 6:16), and the Spirit of God dwells in us (Rom. 8:11).  If evil spirits in the demon possessed could not tolerate the presence of Christ in his earthly ministry, I do not believe a tongues-inspiring evil spirit can cohabit with the Holy Spirit in a Christian’s heart.

Fourth, Jesus Christ gave us a specific promise that if we asked the Heavenly Father for the Holy Spirit, we would not receive a serpent or a scorpion–symbols of evil spirits–but we would receive the Holy Spirit.  “…how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?”–Luke 11:13.  I do not believe that Christ’s promise has failed 537 million times.  I do not believe that 537 million Christians asked for this manifestation of the Holy Spirit, and that God stood idly by and allowed them to receive 537 million demons.

Fifth, there are no known reports of any manifestations of speaking in tongues in Christian churches that are clearly identifiable as “false tongues.”  I have spoken and interpreted public messages in tongues countless times now for 17 years.  Never once has an interpretation included, “Praise Satan!”  Or, “Jesus be accursed!”

Not once…in thousands of occurrances…In 17 years.

Sixth, all interpretations of tongues I have witnessed, participated in, or of which I am aware, always glorify Jesus Christ, extoll Christ’s victory over Satan, and exhort Christians to live holy lives and obey God’s written Word.  No manifestations of “false tongues,” inspired by evil spirits, would do so.

The following is an excellent example of the content of messages in tongues:

A highly-placed Southern Baptist official told me that some years ago, Billy Graham had been invited to speak to an assembly of students at an Assemblies of God College.

Billy Graham was on a very tight schedule.  He had just enough time for his plane to land, then to travel to the seminary, speak, and then rush to catch his next plane.  And as if that wasn’t difficult enough, Billy Graham’s plane landed late.

He was rushed to the seminary.  He quickly spoke his message to the students, and concluded.  He left the microphone and was several feet away, when someone stood up and spoke a message in tongues.  Billy stopped and listened.  A moment later, another student stood up and gave the interpretation.

Billy returned to the microphone and said:

“I was pressed for time today.  And the message I gave you actually had four points to it.  I had only enough time to give you the first two points.  That message in tongues, just gave you the last two points of my message.”

And he rushed out to catch his plane.

Are we to believe that an evil spirit was courteous enough to quietly attend this meeting and then finish Billy Graham’s message for him?

Has Satan joined God’s evangelistic team?

Seventh, we have no reports of false tongues, inspired by evil spirits, manifesting among the unsaved, and in places of false religion and sin.  False tongues have not appeared in houses of prostitution,  casinos, Jehovah’s Witnesses meetings, or at the Playboy Mansion.

Speaking in tongues occurs exclusively in Christian churches.  They involve only Born-again Christians.  The content of the messages glorify Jesus Christ.  These occur only as Christians praise, worship, and pray to the Heavenly Father.

It is a considerable stretch to believe that such manifestations could be anything but genuinely inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Are we really to believe that 537 million Christians experience continual demonic manifestations of false tongues, when false tongues were so rare that the Bible did not even address the issue?

This argument is nothing more than the Boogeyman.

Just as the children’s Boogeyman disappears from the room whenever the light is turned on, so also does the Cessationist’s False Tongues Boogeyman disappear when confronted with the light of Scripture, church history, present-day experience, and common sense.

Copyright 2006  Mel C. Montgomery.  All rights reserved.  Material may be copied and shared with others if done so without charge, in entirety, and if attribution is given.

We have done miracles in thy name.. they had claimed

Jesus next never denied their claim, and never accused that, said that their gifts were false..

the gifts were genuine.. rather it was the persons themselves who were false.. pretenders, imposter Christians

and that is true in many Pentecostals and non Pentecostal churches today as well..

Depart me from me he Jesus next said for I do not know you..”

Many even religious persons, people are falsely trying to reach Heaven, serve God in their own efforts neglect God’s provisions for them, God’s spirtual gifts. http://comeholyspirit.wordpress.com/2008/11/19/come-holy-spirit/

 
 
I have a whole site that deals with true and false Pentecostal bashing. http://postedat.wordpress.com/ but all critiques firstly need  to be balanced..
> Pentecostals who are inherently  unstable from the constant hypnotic emotional experiences.
and in reality this is just real crap, and slander  produced by one’s personal distortions, lies and bitterness.. for you find the same type of bad people in all churches, 30 percent of church people are basically saved, the rest, the 70 percent are not and thus they too   act weird..
>The pastor of such places has dictatorial authority over the church people.
is some more distorted crap for most churches for the last few centuries now too have a dictatorial pastor in  all denominations now as well, not just Pentecostals. And what you have never been to a Baptist church?
>Much of my criticism of Pentecostalism comes from my experience within the Oneness brand. However, in correspondence with people across the Unites States and the world, I find that the abuses of power and the intimidation of people exist among the several types of Pentecostalism, in addition to the Oneness sect. ( or even not just to Pentecostals)
I have also witnessed abuses within the Oneness brand Pentecostals and also within PAOC , Latter Rain Pentecostals, but also in Baptist, Brethren, Mennonite, Alliance, Catholic   churches, and so now what you did not?
– AND FOR A START THE UNACCEPTABLE ABUSES I HAD WITNESSED HAD VERY SIMILAR PATTERNS.. THEY WERE RELATED TO STEALING OF MONEY, DISTORTION PREACHING ON TITHING, BUT ALSO RELATED MAINLY ON THE INADEQUATE SUPERVISIONS BY THE RESPONSIBLE SUPERINTENDENTS ON THE BAD PASTORS WHO WERE FALSELY ALLOWED TO DO THEIR OWN THING, ACTED LIKE DICTATORS.
>Breaking the traditional bonds of friends and family is the most subversive thing that also the crooked Pentecostals Pastors do to maintain control, like many cults,
 
and this is a distorted crap  cause other denominations also  do the same thing, and there are righteous, good Pentecostals as well.
 
 
In reality too as well non Pentecostal denominations, such as fundamentalists, Brethren, Baptists also help to break family ties, encourage spouses, family members falsely to divorce especially a Pentecostal adherent. Now get honest, balanced, real
– ON TOP OF THAT I HAD NOTED THAT IN THE CROOKED CHURCHES, LOCAL CHURCH ELDERS TEND TO BE NON EXISTENT, even in other denominations
-AND yes   in the bad Pentecostal churches THE MEN tend to  STAY  AWAY FROM THE CHURCH IN DROVES, THE WOMEN OUTNUMBERED THE MEN IN THE ATTENDANCE which was DIFFERENT FROM THE many churches I had visited, attended.
>> Are they former criminals? This does not matter since all their previous sins are “under the blood.” Are they respectable people? This does not matter – they spoke in tongues, so they must be “changed and good people.” 
and they tithe, so they must be “changed and good people.”  This is undeniably true. not just in Pentecostal churches too, but in the Baptist, Alliance, other churches..
>Letters from an Ex-Pentecostal  February 2005
but  there are true and false pastors, true and false churches now in all of the Christians denominations for a start. Mention that truth for a start too.
There was so much emotional rubbish, lies, distortions in the rest of the letters critiquing the Pentecostals  that they were not at all  worth reading, it gives a real bad impression to the readers about the writers, posters firstly. The devil is the one sided accuser of the brethren and too many writers there clearly had fell into his hold.
I liked all the great non existent Bible references too… it seems the writers were not real Christians to start of with, they were  clearly ignorant, or ashamed off the Bible, God’s words.
I suggest that  you revise the letter seriously.
  
 In real life sibling rivalry, bullies, oppressors can be found everywhere, in our homes, amongst our associates, in our communities, on the net, in politics, civil and public services, even in the churches as well. These are the people who falsely abuse others and despise the human rights of others, and they falsely do think now that God himself approves of it or overlooks it all.. Nothing could be further from the truth. But our own final peace, reward will be in Heaven.Now about these false bullies, thugs, the proud oppressors, war mongers
 http://postedat.wordpress.com/2009/01/30/bullies-thugs-proud-oppressors-war-mongers/

For certainty also because of the demonic opposition the devil will try to discourage you from finding out reading about the Holy spirit, Charismatics, Pentecostals and the Bible. I know I have experienced this myself the last  40 years. So my sites will reflect, show you what I have learned, found out on these subjects for a start.

http://postedat.wordpress.com/2009/01/01/distortions-lies-false-critiques/

.

“The ONLY way you can get to heaven is by being born again!!! THAT’S what Jesus told Nicodemus! prior to Pentecost and being Born again means also being Baptized with the Holy Spirit too after the day of Pentecost, as Jesus himself also had commanded… and everyone who was baptized with the Holy Spirit in the book of Acts showed it by speaking in toungues.. otherwise you truly are not Born again if you do not speak in toungues.. like it or not, believe it or not.. that was the New Testament pattern.. so do you speak in toungues, or why not?
 do see also

http://comeholyspirit.wordpress.com/2013/04/16/covet-to-prophesy-and-forbid-not-to-speak-with-tongues/ http://sacredtruths.wordpress.com/2012/02/04/god-can-speak-directly-to-you/
http://postedat.wordpress.com/2014/02/03/now-about-speaking-in-tongues;

.

I really get a big chuckle in hearing from all those pretend, rather hot air speaking in tongues experts who themselves admit they cannot speak in tongues.

http://postedat.wordpress.com/2010/02/01/follow-after-charity-and-desire-spiritual-gifts-but-rather-that-ye-may-prophesy/

.

 

Beware always of men and women, bullies, tormentors, control freaks,  persons, civil and public servants,  politicians, pastors, leaders, elders, Corporations too who falsely do, will try to enslave you, oppress you, exploit you even while they claim they are proclaiming the truth, democracy, trying to help you, etc.,
Is 51:23 ..your tormentors {and} oppressors, those who said to you, Bow down, that we may ride {or} tread over you; and you have made your back like the ground and like the street for them to pass over.
  
DO SEE ALSO
 
http://thefocusonthefamily.wordpress.com/2008/07/03/verbal-abuse-is-always-unacceptable-too/
http://thefocusonthefamily.wordpress.com/2008/07/17/the-too-common-abusive-silent-treatment/

November 7, 2008

What they often do call news is mere lies, spin doctors, not real facts

 

cbcnews

– Its is undeniable reality that most of Churches today, at least over half,  are still   often cultural, social  groups, not real Christian Churches, and that includes both the white and black, ethnic churches.

– Obama election shows deep racial divide in church or the deep theological divides? or what is accepted in one denomination can not be accepted in others. The liberal churches clearly voted for Obama.

As posted on the net.

Obama election shows deep racial or a religious divide in church supposedly says ” The Associated Press – NEW YORK (AP) – The barrier-crossing election of Barack Obama did little to bridge the deep racial divide in American churches. In fact, some clergy say it has only served to underscore their differences. While nonwhite Christians voted overwhelmingly for Obama, most white Christians backed John McCain, according to exit polls. The Rev. Al Mohler, president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, the denomination’s flagship school, said white evangelicals backed McCain because of his opposition to abortion rights, not because of the race of either candidate. According to Associated Press exit polls, 34 percent of white Protestants voted for Obama, while 65 percent went with McCain. Obama won the overall Roman Catholic vote, but white Catholics backed McCain by a slim majority, 52 percent to 47 percent. Among white Christians, the racial gap was most pronounced with evangelicals: 74 percent backed McCain, 24 percent backed Obama. The pattern is not new and fits the larger trend of white voters overall, the majority of whom voted for McCain..” ignores the fact the white Christians  tend to be from the more traditional established Christian  churches.

– Religious  White  people’s  racial values was, is not the only issue for many of them now still not supporting Obama. Many white people still also had voted for Obama, and note this that many white people, rightfully or wrongfully,  oppose Obama’s socialism which they tend to  seem to see as as another form of communism too. Many religious persons still do see Obama rather rightfully as a non Christian

-Also the Black Christians and clearly wrongfully had supported their own  race over adequate religious values  for Obama’s reality of being a true Christian is still very much debatable. He supports drinking alcohol, gays, abortion and who knows what, and  he is the first political candidate to be addressed as an Anti Christ by many because  of his inadequate Christian beliefs, or  because he  is a non Christian?

Too many reporters are mere Bullies still

Bullying tendency wired in brain
BBC News –  An area of the brain associated with reward lit up in scans when aggressive boys watched a video of someone inflicting pain. Boys without a history of unusual aggression had no such response, the study in Biological Psychology found.
Pain May Be Pleasurable for Some Bullies ABC News
Bullies may get kick out of seeing others in pain Reuters
United Press International – World Science – Telegraph.co.uk
all 24 news articles »

Palin gone, anything but forgotten
San Francisco Chronicle –  GOP vice presidential candidate Gov. Sarah Palin returned home in defeat to Wasilla, Alaska, on Wednesday night – leaving behind eyebrow-raising tales about towel-clad appearances and internal campaign feuds.
More Dirt on Sarah Palin’s Fancy Duds Washington Post
Internal Battles Divided McCain and Palin Camps New York Times
Dallas Morning News – The Swamp – Tribune’s Washington Bureau – ABC News – Los Angeles Times
all 468 news articles »

The Liberal news media tends not to support family  values, and / or Christians  but still I was surprised how many unsubstantiated facts,   lies the liberal news media had and is still printing about Sarah Palin , for they do falsely present  lies, slander, gossip, distortions, even hate all showing  to many what they themselves merely still are really like,  immoral persons!

see also

http://postedat.wordpress.com/2008/11/05/the-faith-factor-2008-vs-2004-exit-polls/

http://canadatoday9.multiply.com/journal/item/4/HOW_TO_DEAL_WITH_MAJOR_COMPLAINTS

It is absurd also still to call a drug user, an alcoholic, an abortionist, a fornicator, or a divorcée as a real Christian now still also

Sarah Palin fires back at ‘jerks’ Los Angeles Times – The governor and her aides dispute claims about her foreign-policy knowledge and $150000-plus wardrobe. By Seema Mehta and Maeve Reston Alaska Gov.
Palin Denounces Her Critics as Cowardly ABC News
Palin Calls Criticism by McCain Aides ‘Cruel’ New York Times
Reuters – The Associated Press – Washington Post – The Weekly Standard
all 802 news articles »
 
Readers Respond: Bush and His Critics Wall Street Journal –  The reader response to “The Treatment of Bush Has Been a Disgrace” has been overwhelming. Here’s a selection from the thousands of comments submitted by Opinion Journal readers: Finally, someone with the guts to stand up for W. 
 

 

“”We worship an awesome God in the blue states,” Barack Obama declared during his 2004 Democratic convention keynote. Thunderous applause greeted that line, in part because Democrats felt frustrated that they’d been unfairly cast as a secular or even anti-religion party, and by the political dominance of religious conservatives.”

The Rise of the Religious Left. But clearly Obama still did not get the evangelical votes.

The Faith Factor 2008 vs. 2004 — Exit Polls

election god gap detail final.JPG

election attenders non attenders final.JPG

election by faith whites final third try.JPG

 

 

 

http://blog.beliefnet.com/stevenwaldman/ 

http://anyonecare.wordpress.com/2008/11/05/obama-triumphs-will-be-first-black-us-president/

 

Ten Faith Factors for Election Night

1.How Many Obamagelicals Are There? – It might seem farfetched that a socialist-terror-lovin’-pro-abortion candidate like Obama could win any evangelical Christians but he’s been courting them fervently since he began his presidential run. The key the 40% of evangelicals who call themselves “moderate” or “liberal.” Point of reference: John Kerry won 21% of white evangelicals, Gore 18%. Bill Clinton in 1996 won 26%.    

 

2.  Will Palin Turn Out the “Religious Right”? — By picking Sarah Palin, John McCain gambled that she’d be able to rev up the evangelical “base.” Even as her popularity has fallen generally, evangelicals still love her (some even believing she was sent to battle the anti-Christ.) Assuming most conservative evangelicals vote for McCain, the second question is: how many will show up? Point of reference: white evangelicals accounted for 23% of the electorate in 2004.

3. Do Midwestern Evangelicals Split With Their Brethren? — Recent polls have showed Obama trailing badly among evangelicals in Florida and Colorado but doing quite well with them in Michigan, Ohio and

Pennsylvania. If he succeeds there, he may have tapped into regional differences in style, theology and politics and launch a new era in faith-and-politics punditry, in which we no longer talk about “the evangelical vote” as a geographically uniform phenomenon.4. Will Catholics Ignore Their Bishops? – The overall Catholic vote has gone with the popular vote winner every election since 1968. Catholic Bishops have been urging Catholic voters to vote for pro-life candidates but a majority of Catholic voters are now pro-choice so it remains to be seen what influence the church will have. (Obama is also winning with the 100-year-old-nuns bloc) Another factor in Obama’s favor: a higher percentage of the Catholic vote will be Latino this year. Last election, George W. Bush won the Catholic 52%-46%.

 

5. Can Obama Finally Bowl a Strike With Skeptical White Catholics? – During the primaries, Obama did poorly with white Catholics, often working class ethnics or their offspring. Remember his feeble attempt to curry favor through bowling? They tend to be culturally conservative and haven’t voted for a Democrat since 1996. On the other hand, they’re especially concerned about the economy this year, and Joe Biden has been trying to bond with them as a fellow “cultural Catholics.” Point of reference: In 2004, Bush won 56% of white Catholics, Kerry 43%.

6. Will Whitebread Protestants Back the Black Guy? – Recent polls show Democrats gaining with a group that had leaned Republican for most of the past few decades – Mainline Protestants. It appears that while Sarah Palin energized evangelicals, she may have alienated some Mainliners. In 2004, they went for President George W. Bush 54%-46%.

7. Will Latino Protestants Vote Their Values or the Pocketbook? – One positive trend for Obama will likely be the shift of Latinos from the Republican side, where they resided in 2004, to the Democrats. The hidden religious story: most of the shift is driven by Latino Protestants. Many are evangelical and liked Bush’s Christian faith and his conservative positions on social issues (gay marriage, abortion) but have shifted to Obama because of the economy and concerns about immigration.

8. How Will the Kinda-Sorta Religious Vote? – In recent elections, the most religious you were, the more likely you were to vote Republican. This is known as the God Gap, which will still certainly exist. But watch for two things: among weekly churchoers how big is McCain’s margin? Bush won that group 61%-39% Second, Kerry last time beat Bush among more occasional churchgoers 53%-47%. Will Obama increase that margin?

9. Will Jews Schlep to Republican Side? – This only really matters in

Florida, and even there it doesn’t matter as much as you’d think (Jews made up 5% of the electorate there in 2004). Early polls had Obama struggling among Jews – in part because of fears about his former church’s connections to Louis Farrakhan — but more recently he’s caught up, possibly because Jews fear that Sarah Palin is an extreme evangelical. Or possibly the Sarah Silverman factor. Jews reportedly went about 75%-25% for Kerry.10. Will the GOP Become the ROP? – Will Republicans become the Religiously Oriented Party? In 2004, white evangelicals made up 36% of Bush voters.
Will that go up or down? If it becomes an even more dominant force within the party, how will that shape either the way McCain governs if he wins or, if he loses, how the Republicans re-invent themselves.

Carla Hinton  Religion Editor http://blog.newsok.com/religionandvalues/2008/10/31/389

so what do you say  about the faith factor…

Though the economy clearly was the defining issue of the election, Obama forged a new coalition by luring millions of religious left voters who had avoided Democrats in recent years.

In short:

He narrowed the God Gap. Bush beat Kerry among weekly church-goers by 61%-39%. McCain is beating Obama 54%-44% Most of that gain appears to have come from Protestants rather than Catholics

 

He won Catholics back. Early exit polls indicate he won 54% of the Catholic vote compared to 45% for John McCain. George W. Bush won the Catholic vote 52%-46%. Most of those gains came from Catholics who don’t attend mass weekly.

He also improved among white Catholics, according to the early exit polls. Bush got 56%-43% As of now, McCain lead by just 51%-49% This was despite an aggressive push by more than 50 Bishops to encourage Catholics to focus on abortion as the central issue.

He man real gainst among Evangelicals. Evangelicals and Born Again Christians made up a greater portion of the electorate this year than last election but that didn’t all accrue to McCain’s benefit, as predict. Obama improved slightly on a national level, getting 25% compared to Kerry’s 21%

But far more important, he made significant progress in the pivotal rustbelt states that won him the election. For instance, evangelicals flooded the polls in Ohio and Obama significantly improved on Kerry’s showing.

He attracted more Mainline Protestants – Though shifting toward the center in recent years, mainline Protestants — once a core of the Republican party — – still went for the Republicans in 2004. The exit polls didn’t ask specifically about mainline Protestants but it appears Obama improved slightly with this group..

He energized the lightly religious. Though secular voters already voted Democratic, they did so by an even bigger margin this year. Even more important, a quarter of the electorate says they go to worship services but only a few times a year. Kerry won that group with 54%-45%. Obama won 61%-38%

BREAKING: Catholic Shift to Obama

The rap on Obama during the primaries was that he couldn’t win because he struggled with Catholics. Apparently, he got past that. Early exit polls indicate he won 54% of the Catholic vote compared to 45% for John McCain….

Obama Luring Rest Belt Evangelicals But Not Southerners

Obama seems to have made far more progress with Born Again Christians in rust belt states than in the South. Based on preliminary exit polls: Florida: 78%-20% (McCain-Obama) Virginia: 78%-21% Ohio: 70%-29% Indiana: 66%-32%

BREAKING: Weekly Churchgoers vs. Occasionals

One thing that puzzles me about these numbers: Obama’s progress among Catholics is with those who don’t attend mass weekly. But among Protestants, he improved among those who do attend weekly. One possible theory: abortion. Mass-attending Catholics are more likely…

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